Why "Undefined" value?

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This topic contains 11 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  Tom Nash 1 year, 10 months ago.

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  • #91 Reply
    Aco
    Aco
    Keymaster

    Artemis DB is generated by datas extracted from sigidwiki.com main table, hence everyone can modify Artemis archive. Unfortunately, now frequency and bandwidth form on sigidwiki have some problems: only numbers are accepted and range values are not defined. When this datas is not defined (forms are blank) Artemis applies an automatic range:

    • FREQUENCY:
      • lower limit: 0 Hz (DC)
      • upper limit: 100 GHz
    • BANDWIDTH:
      • lower limit: 0 Hz (DC)
      • upper limit: 100 MHz

    This feature help results filtering but applies an automatic label “Undefined” on frequency or bandwidth. Main trouble lies on sigidwiki frequency and bandwidth form: anyone can suggest some options to upgrade mediawiki? Any ideas?

    Feel free to use this forum to add suggestion, comments or bug report.
    ———————————————-
    From Carl (SIGIDWIKI ADMIN):

    Hey guys, this is the admin from sigidwiki and rtl-sdr.com. I’m working on the range issue, i’ll try and get it so that the front page displays only the range (will take the min and max defined frequencies) instead of all frequencies in the database. I’ll also try and get it so that the database recognises temporary text frequencies such as “HF Band” and implement some sort of sorting feature on the front page.

    Since mediawiki is a very complex beast, I need to hire a specialist programmer for these tasks and I have now found a good one who will get to work soon.

    Are there any other requests related to the sigidwiki that you would like implemented while I am talking to the programmer? Also please note that while the upgrades are being done the site might be unusable for a day or two.

    • This topic was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by Aco Aco.
    • This topic was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by Aco Aco.
    • This topic was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by Aco Aco.
    • This topic was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by Aco Aco.
    #95 Reply

    Dian Kabonasha

    For signals which have widely varying frequencies (teletype, OTH, ionosondes, anything that refuses to stand still), perhaps editing the frequency info on sigidwiki to represent the band in which they can be found (2MHz-30MHz for HF band, etc) might be a good workaround, and would fit the frequency range finder in Artemis.

    #96 Reply
    Aco
    Aco
    Keymaster

    Your suggestion is one of the solutions. Your option will work very well with Artemis data extractor because, at moment, Artemis database forms accept only maximum 2 values for frequency (upper limit and lower limit) and 2 values for bandwidth (upper and lower limit). One big problem is focused on sigidwiki freq. and band. forms: perfect solution should be to restrict those 2 fields with only 2 numbers each. One example could be APT transmissions: MIN FREQ: 136 MHz / MAX FREQ: 138 MHz – BW: 30KHz. If anyone edit frequency form with “HF Band” term, main table on sigidwiki show a blank form and this is converted in data extraction with “Undefined” value.
    User Cartoonman has done an outstanding job in the last few days about updates to sigidwiki. I’ll try to invite him on the forum to discuss about this problem.

    #97 Reply

    Dian Kabonasha

    I am Cartoonman :p, I’ve been the one updating the wiki.

    I’m aware of the HF band mismatch; it was only a temporary placeholder until I could figure out what frequencies to put for the signal (whether it be because I lacked info on it’s freq range or because there were too many frequencies to put for it). But the idea of using general ranges to mark the signal’s range will work well.

    e.g.
    MF signal: [[frequency::0.3MHz]] – [[frequency::3MHz]]
    HF signal: [[frequency::3MHz]] – [[frequency::30MHz]]
    VHF: [[frequency::30MHz]] – [[frequency::300MHz]]
    etc.

    This is for signals which do not have a really defined ‘range’, like NFM voice or AM signals, but are found in certain bands overwhelmingly.

    #98 Reply

    Carl

    Hey guys, this is the admin from sigidwiki and rtl-sdr.com. I’m working on the range issue, i’ll try and get it so that the front page displays only the range (will take the min and max defined frequencies) instead of all frequencies in the database. I’ll also try and get it so that the database recognises temporary text frequencies such as “HF Band” and implement some sort of sorting feature on the front page.

    Since mediawiki is a very complex beast, I need to hire a specialist programmer for these tasks and I have now found a good one who will get to work soon.

    Are there any other requests related to the sigidwiki that you would like implemented while I am talking to the programmer? Also please note that while the upgrades are being done the site might be unusable for a day or two.

    #99 Reply
    Aco
    Aco
    Keymaster

    Sorry Dian, my mistake i did not recognize you with another nickname. Your idea is good and the job you’ve done seems to work well.
    Thanks Carl for keeping up to date your site. Now I highlight your post so that it has better visibility to users.

    #102 Reply

    Dian Kabonasha

    Hey Carl! Yes, I did have some ideas floating in my head to help make the site a bit more usable.

    As i’m sure you know, the current state of the wiki is rather inefficient and not very organized. Virtually the whole site is loaded at the home page, which brings with it obvious performance problems.

    I think that setting up a home page that serves as an outer layer from the rest of the site would make loading time a lot faster and allow the site to be organized into sections. Splitting up the site into sections (Signal section, Unidentified signals section, etc) will make it far easier for users to navigate to where they want to go.

    This might break the way Artemis fetches data (if Artemis’s DB server fetches raw data from the home page and parses it as-is), so that should be noted if the structure changes.

    #107 Reply

    Carl

    Thanks for the suggestions Dian. I agree about the performance issues that can happen when the list grows very large, though if the front page image size remains small I think performance won’t be too bad. The audio size is no problem since that is loaded only after the play button is clicked.

    Sectioning is a good idea, but i’m afraid that if we split the sections into multiple pages, then no one will ever bother to browse the unidentified section. There might be a way to have the unid section collapsed at first, and only loaded if it is expanded though.

    Some changes should be made in the next few days. Let me know if there are any issues.

    #108 Reply

    Dian Kabonasha

    Ah, very good points.
    Hmm, I like the expanding and collapsing idea. I think that would work very well with the site.

    #109 Reply

    Dian Kabonasha

    I also have a question about the articles and organization (And Aco, you can also provide input as it would affect Artemis).

    For certain families of signals like Codan Data Modem, SSTV, GSM, Olivia, etc. that have multiple modes that have varying degrees of distinctness (from just a wider bandwidth to a completely different modulation and width), should these individual signals be split into their own page, or remain as a sort of pseudo-main/individual page for the whole family?

    This becomes sorta tricky when dealing with signals like Codan Data and GSM, where there are a whole bunch of variations with signals, where centralizing the article would cause a trade off where perhaps a certain variation of the signal wouldn’t show up on the main page, so a browsing user wouldn’t find it unless they had clicked on the article to read further.
    What are your thoughts?

    #110 Reply

    Dian Kabonasha

    Sounds great!

    I just had a question about signal pages that contain signal families that may have fairly distinct signals (e.g. Codan Data Modem and GSM). Would it be better to have each distinct signal it’s own separate page, or combine them into one main page?

    The only reason why I ask is because if I combine them into one page, users who may search just based on waterfall preview may not see other various forms of a signal, and may pass over it without having seen the article and it’s different signal modes.

    Having more separate articles for each signal however could clutter the main page (which I’m currently debating on with the current status of SSTV; I still have more than 5 variants to upload.) and make it harder to list the signal family’s general information without being repetitive over multiple articles.

    #4147 Reply

    Tom Nash

    Hello,

    I would like first to apologize for my english which is a little bit on the rough side of the road and the nature of my question which is might be stupid.
    Is it possible to include into Artemis a section for signal acquisition so that it could be possible to interface Artemis with an audio source (such as a usb DVB-T dongle) may be via VAC , then a second section which will compare the acquired signal to those stored in the database and a third section which will identify the type of signal, modulation…with a given probability.
    Such process is already embedded with many existing software like wavecom, Hoka, Krypto..
    Regards,
    Tom

  • Author
    Posts
  • #91 Reply
    Aco
    Aco
    Keymaster
    • Offline

    Artemis DB is generated by datas extracted from sigidwiki.com main table, hence everyone can modify Artemis archive. Unfortunately, now frequency and bandwidth form on sigidwiki have some problems: only numbers are accepted and range values are not defined. When this datas is not defined (forms are blank) Artemis applies an automatic range:

    • FREQUENCY:
      • lower limit: 0 Hz (DC)
      • upper limit: 100 GHz
    • BANDWIDTH:
      • lower limit: 0 Hz (DC)
      • upper limit: 100 MHz

    This feature help results filtering but applies an automatic label “Undefined” on frequency or bandwidth. Main trouble lies on sigidwiki frequency and bandwidth form: anyone can suggest some options to upgrade mediawiki? Any ideas?

    Feel free to use this forum to add suggestion, comments or bug report.
    ———————————————-
    From Carl (SIGIDWIKI ADMIN):

    Hey guys, this is the admin from sigidwiki and rtl-sdr.com. I’m working on the range issue, i’ll try and get it so that the front page displays only the range (will take the min and max defined frequencies) instead of all frequencies in the database. I’ll also try and get it so that the database recognises temporary text frequencies such as “HF Band” and implement some sort of sorting feature on the front page.

    Since mediawiki is a very complex beast, I need to hire a specialist programmer for these tasks and I have now found a good one who will get to work soon.

    Are there any other requests related to the sigidwiki that you would like implemented while I am talking to the programmer? Also please note that while the upgrades are being done the site might be unusable for a day or two.

    • This topic was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by Aco Aco.
    • This topic was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by Aco Aco.
    • This topic was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by Aco Aco.
    • This topic was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by Aco Aco.
    #95 Reply

    Dian Kabonasha
    • Offline

    For signals which have widely varying frequencies (teletype, OTH, ionosondes, anything that refuses to stand still), perhaps editing the frequency info on sigidwiki to represent the band in which they can be found (2MHz-30MHz for HF band, etc) might be a good workaround, and would fit the frequency range finder in Artemis.

    #96 Reply
    Aco
    Aco
    Keymaster
    • Offline

    Your suggestion is one of the solutions. Your option will work very well with Artemis data extractor because, at moment, Artemis database forms accept only maximum 2 values for frequency (upper limit and lower limit) and 2 values for bandwidth (upper and lower limit). One big problem is focused on sigidwiki freq. and band. forms: perfect solution should be to restrict those 2 fields with only 2 numbers each. One example could be APT transmissions: MIN FREQ: 136 MHz / MAX FREQ: 138 MHz – BW: 30KHz. If anyone edit frequency form with “HF Band” term, main table on sigidwiki show a blank form and this is converted in data extraction with “Undefined” value.
    User Cartoonman has done an outstanding job in the last few days about updates to sigidwiki. I’ll try to invite him on the forum to discuss about this problem.

    #97 Reply

    Dian Kabonasha
    • Offline

    I am Cartoonman :p, I’ve been the one updating the wiki.

    I’m aware of the HF band mismatch; it was only a temporary placeholder until I could figure out what frequencies to put for the signal (whether it be because I lacked info on it’s freq range or because there were too many frequencies to put for it). But the idea of using general ranges to mark the signal’s range will work well.

    e.g.
    MF signal: [[frequency::0.3MHz]] – [[frequency::3MHz]]
    HF signal: [[frequency::3MHz]] – [[frequency::30MHz]]
    VHF: [[frequency::30MHz]] – [[frequency::300MHz]]
    etc.

    This is for signals which do not have a really defined ‘range’, like NFM voice or AM signals, but are found in certain bands overwhelmingly.

    #98 Reply

    Carl
    • Offline

    Hey guys, this is the admin from sigidwiki and rtl-sdr.com. I’m working on the range issue, i’ll try and get it so that the front page displays only the range (will take the min and max defined frequencies) instead of all frequencies in the database. I’ll also try and get it so that the database recognises temporary text frequencies such as “HF Band” and implement some sort of sorting feature on the front page.

    Since mediawiki is a very complex beast, I need to hire a specialist programmer for these tasks and I have now found a good one who will get to work soon.

    Are there any other requests related to the sigidwiki that you would like implemented while I am talking to the programmer? Also please note that while the upgrades are being done the site might be unusable for a day or two.

    #99 Reply
    Aco
    Aco
    Keymaster
    • Offline

    Sorry Dian, my mistake i did not recognize you with another nickname. Your idea is good and the job you’ve done seems to work well.
    Thanks Carl for keeping up to date your site. Now I highlight your post so that it has better visibility to users.

    #102 Reply

    Dian Kabonasha
    • Offline

    Hey Carl! Yes, I did have some ideas floating in my head to help make the site a bit more usable.

    As i’m sure you know, the current state of the wiki is rather inefficient and not very organized. Virtually the whole site is loaded at the home page, which brings with it obvious performance problems.

    I think that setting up a home page that serves as an outer layer from the rest of the site would make loading time a lot faster and allow the site to be organized into sections. Splitting up the site into sections (Signal section, Unidentified signals section, etc) will make it far easier for users to navigate to where they want to go.

    This might break the way Artemis fetches data (if Artemis’s DB server fetches raw data from the home page and parses it as-is), so that should be noted if the structure changes.

    #107 Reply

    Carl
    • Offline

    Thanks for the suggestions Dian. I agree about the performance issues that can happen when the list grows very large, though if the front page image size remains small I think performance won’t be too bad. The audio size is no problem since that is loaded only after the play button is clicked.

    Sectioning is a good idea, but i’m afraid that if we split the sections into multiple pages, then no one will ever bother to browse the unidentified section. There might be a way to have the unid section collapsed at first, and only loaded if it is expanded though.

    Some changes should be made in the next few days. Let me know if there are any issues.

    #108 Reply

    Dian Kabonasha
    • Offline

    Ah, very good points.
    Hmm, I like the expanding and collapsing idea. I think that would work very well with the site.

    #109 Reply

    Dian Kabonasha
    • Offline

    I also have a question about the articles and organization (And Aco, you can also provide input as it would affect Artemis).

    For certain families of signals like Codan Data Modem, SSTV, GSM, Olivia, etc. that have multiple modes that have varying degrees of distinctness (from just a wider bandwidth to a completely different modulation and width), should these individual signals be split into their own page, or remain as a sort of pseudo-main/individual page for the whole family?

    This becomes sorta tricky when dealing with signals like Codan Data and GSM, where there are a whole bunch of variations with signals, where centralizing the article would cause a trade off where perhaps a certain variation of the signal wouldn’t show up on the main page, so a browsing user wouldn’t find it unless they had clicked on the article to read further.
    What are your thoughts?

    #110 Reply

    Dian Kabonasha
    • Offline

    Sounds great!

    I just had a question about signal pages that contain signal families that may have fairly distinct signals (e.g. Codan Data Modem and GSM). Would it be better to have each distinct signal it’s own separate page, or combine them into one main page?

    The only reason why I ask is because if I combine them into one page, users who may search just based on waterfall preview may not see other various forms of a signal, and may pass over it without having seen the article and it’s different signal modes.

    Having more separate articles for each signal however could clutter the main page (which I’m currently debating on with the current status of SSTV; I still have more than 5 variants to upload.) and make it harder to list the signal family’s general information without being repetitive over multiple articles.

    #4147 Reply

    Tom Nash
    • Offline

    Hello,

    I would like first to apologize for my english which is a little bit on the rough side of the road and the nature of my question which is might be stupid.
    Is it possible to include into Artemis a section for signal acquisition so that it could be possible to interface Artemis with an audio source (such as a usb DVB-T dongle) may be via VAC , then a second section which will compare the acquired signal to those stored in the database and a third section which will identify the type of signal, modulation…with a given probability.
    Such process is already embedded with many existing software like wavecom, Hoka, Krypto..
    Regards,
    Tom

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